top posting - a genuine question

[Orville Wright]

Hi
This is a genuine question, so all you flamers who like to kick anything
that moves, please don't respond.
I'm aware of the protocol of posting a reply at the bottom of the previous
post, or cropped previous post, but I have to say I find it intensely
irritating scrolling down through a series of messages (that if i've been
following the thread i've already read) that haven't been cropped just to
find a 'one line response' or a flame or BS. Does this annoy anyone else?
What is the harm with top posting? Surely it's quicker to read and if you
want the background you can do the scrolling thing.
Sorry it's off topic, it's been on my mind for years.
Apologies for the heresy of the question, I will birch branch myself later.
Mike

Top posters are seen as newbies/lazy people to experienced usenet posters.


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T H E W R I G H T B R O T H E R Z

[Justin Thyme]

<<snip>>

Post by Orville Wright
Top posters are seen as newbies/lazy people to experienced usenet posters.

And people who reply to a post made in one group, and crosspost their reply
to a zillion different groups are seen as dickheads or kooks.

Post by Orville Wright
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T H E W R I G H T B R O T H E R Z

[Raoul Xembawnschii]

X-Newsreader: Knode/0.7.1
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 18:15:51 EDT
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:15:51 GMT
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Post by Justin Thyme
<<snip>>

Post by Orville Wright
Top posters are seen as newbies/lazy people to experienced usenet posters.

And people who reply to a post made in one group, and crosspost their reply
to a zillion different groups are seen as dickheads or kooks.

I *hate* those people!

Post by Justin Thyme

Post by Orville Wright
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T H E W R I G H T B R O T H E R Z

[Joseph Meehan]

Post by Orville Wright

Hi
This is a genuine question, so all you flamers who like to kick anything
that moves, please don't respond.
I'm aware of the protocol of posting a reply at the bottom of the previous
post, or cropped previous post, but I have to say I find it intensely
irritating scrolling down through a series of messages (that if i've been
following the thread i've already read) that haven't been cropped just to
find a 'one line response' or a flame or BS. Does this annoy anyone else?
What is the harm with top posting? Surely it's quicker to read and if you
want the background you can do the scrolling thing.
Sorry it's off topic, it's been on my mind for years.
Apologies for the heresy of the question, I will birch branch myself later.
Mike

Top posters are seen as newbies/lazy people to experienced usenet posters.

I would say those who don't understand that top posting may be the
better method many time and insist on sticking to a rule right or wrong as
long as it is a rule (none official rule but the way) are seen as old
fuddy-duddy duds who can't handle change. It makes one wonder why they are
using a computer and not chiseling their messages on a stone slab.

Post by Orville Wright
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|WB|
|{}|
_______________/^^\________________
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`========--------. .---------========'
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T H E W R I G H T B R O T H E R Z

[Joseph Meehan]

Post by Orville Wright

Hi
This is a genuine question, so all you flamers who like to kick
anything that moves, please don't respond.
I'm aware of the protocol of posting a reply at the bottom of the
previous post, or cropped previous post, but I have to say I find it
intensely irritating scrolling down through a series of messages
(that if i've been following the thread i've already read) that
haven't been cropped just to find a 'one line response' or a flame
or BS. Does this annoy anyone else?
What is the harm with top posting? Surely it's quicker to read and
if you want the background you can do the scrolling thing.
Sorry it's off topic, it's been on my mind for years.
Apologies for the heresy of the question, I will birch branch myself later.
Mike

Top posters are seen as newbies/lazy people to experienced usenet posters.

And what about cross posting a message to a number of newsgroups when
the original message was only posted to one. What do experienced usenet
users think of them???

[Dr. Flonkenstein]

Being tired of lurking, on Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:30:56 +0000, Joseph Meehan

Post by Joseph Meehan

Post by Orville Wright

Hi
This is a genuine question, so all you flamers who like to kick
anything that moves, please don't respond.
I'm aware of the protocol of posting a reply at the bottom of the
previous post, or cropped previous post, but I have to say I find it
intensely irritating scrolling down through a series of messages (that
if i've been following the thread i've already read) that haven't been
cropped just to find a 'one line response' or a flame or BS. Does this
annoy anyone else?
What is the harm with top posting? Surely it's quicker to read and if
you want the background you can do the scrolling thing.
Sorry it's off topic, it's been on my mind for years.
Apologies for the heresy of the question, I will birch branch myself later.
Mike

Top posters are seen as newbies/lazy people to experienced usenet posters.

And what about cross posting a message to a number of newsgroups when
the original message was only posted to one. What do experienced usenet
users think of them???

That the subject is on topic in the other newsgroups too?

[2Rowdy]

Message i.d.:<news:***@hotmail.com>,
by author Dr. Flonkenstein aka

Post by Dr. Flonkenstein
Being tired of lurking, on Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:30:56 +0000, Joseph

Post by Joseph Meehan

Post by Orville Wright

Hi
This is a genuine question, so all you flamers who like to kick
anything that moves, please don't respond.
I'm aware of the protocol of posting a reply at the bottom of the
previous post, or cropped previous post, but I have to say I
find it intensely irritating scrolling down through a series of
messages (that if i've been following the thread i've already
read) that haven't been cropped just to find a 'one line
response' or a flame or BS. Does this annoy anyone else?
What is the harm with top posting? Surely it's quicker to read
and if you want the background you can do the scrolling thing.
Sorry it's off topic, it's been on my mind for years.
Apologies for the heresy of the question, I will birch branch myself later.
Mike

Top posters are seen as newbies/lazy people to experienced usenet posters.

And what about cross posting a message to a number of
newsgroups when the original message was only posted to one. What
do experienced usenet users think of them???

That the subject is on topic in the other newsgroups too?

<ahum> experienced usenet users

[Dr. Flonkenstein]

Post by 2Rowdy
Dr. Flonkenstein aka

Post by Dr. Flonkenstein
Being tired of lurking, on Sat, 17 Jul 2004 19:30:56 +0000, Joseph

Post by Joseph Meehan

Post by Orville Wright

Hi
This is a genuine question, so all you flamers who like to kick
anything that moves, please don't respond.
I'm aware of the protocol of posting a reply at the bottom of the
previous post, or cropped previous post, but I have to say I find it
intensely irritating scrolling down through a series of messages
(that if i've been following the thread i've already read) that
haven't been cropped just to find a 'one line response' or a flame or
BS. Does this annoy anyone else?
What is the harm with top posting? Surely it's quicker to read and if
you want the background you can do the scrolling thing.
Sorry it's off topic, it's been on my mind for years.
Apologies for the heresy of the question, I will birch branch myself later.
Mike

Top posters are seen as newbies/lazy people to experienced usenet posters.

And what about cross posting a message to a number of
newsgroups when the original message was only posted to one. What do
experienced usenet users think of them???

That the subject is on topic in the other newsgroups too?

<ahum> experienced usenet users

<no toll mode>
ok if you can't stand a joke:

It is preferred that an article is crossposted to being send several times
to different newsgroups, this in order to reduce bandwith significantly.

</no troll mode>

[Joseph Meehan]

Dr. Flonkenstein wrote:
....

Post by Dr. Flonkenstein
It is preferred that an article is crossposted to being send several
times to different newsgroups, this in order to reduce bandwith
significantly.
</no troll mode>

But why start crossposting a thread that was started in only one NG.

[Dr. Flonkenstein]

Being tired of lurking, on Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:38:24 +0000, Joseph Meehan

Post by Joseph Meehan
....

Post by Dr. Flonkenstein
It is preferred that an article is crossposted to being send several
times to different newsgroups, this in order to reduce bandwith
significantly.
</no troll mode>

But why start crossposting a thread that was started in only one NG.

Because the subject is on topic in the other newsgroups.

[Cretin Needs]

Post by Dr. Flonkenstein
Being tired of lurking, on Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:38:24 +0000, Joseph Meehan

Post by Joseph Meehan
....

Post by Dr. Flonkenstein
It is preferred that an article is crossposted to being send several
times to different newsgroups, this in order to reduce bandwith
significantly.
</no troll mode>

But why start crossposting a thread that was started in only one NG.

Because the subject is on topic in the other newsgroups.
--
mhm 27x12
smeeter #28
Usenet Valhalla Circle #19 & #21
CEO Alcatroll Labs Inc.
http://www.insurgent.org/~jhd/kookway.htm

Actually, top/bottom posting debate is on-topic in every newsgroup.

[Joseph Meehan]

Post by Dr. Flonkenstein
Being tired of lurking, on Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:38:24 +0000, Joseph

Post by Joseph Meehan
....

Post by Dr. Flonkenstein
It is preferred that an article is crossposted to being send several
times to different newsgroups, this in order to reduce bandwith
significantly.
</no troll mode>

But why start crossposting a thread that was started in only one NG.

Because the subject is on topic in the other newsgroups.

Are you aware that when you do that, depending on what newsgroup someone
is reading, they may see all the messages or more likely only some of the
messages? Readers may see replies and not be able to understand the reply
because they did not see the original or another message in a the thread in
another newsgroup that is referred to but not quoted. It can make for a lot
of confusion.

Many feel that cross posting messages, especially after the thread has
been started, is poor NG etiquette..

[2Rowdy]

Post by Joseph Meehan

Post by Dr. Flonkenstein
Because the subject is on topic in the other newsgroups.

Are you aware that when you do that, depending on what
newsgroup someone is reading, they may see all the messages or more
likely only some of the messages? Readers may see replies and not
be able to understand the reply because they did not see the
original or another message in a the thread in another newsgroup
that is referred to but not quoted. It can make for a lot of
confusion.

Depends on the way a message a cut and answered. A good cut leaves the
intention of a message intact.

Post by Joseph Meehan
Many feel that cross posting messages, especially after the
thread has been started, is poor NG etiquette..

Define many? If a message in on-topic in more than one group it is
good etiquette, it gives others a chance to participate in a
discussion.
Good (most) newsreades mark read messages in an x-post thread as read
when read.

[pioe[rmv]]

What is the harm with top posting? Surely it's quicker to read and if you
want the background you can do the scrolling thing.

No, top-posting is definitely not quicker to read.

It is only quicker to read if you are participating in a discussion.
Then you know what it is about, and reply as if it had been an oral
dialogue.

But for all others, that is all readers of the thread, it is much more
logical when the reply comes after the message to which the writer is
replying. All new readers, and here we are talking about all who did
not write the foregoing message, noe only want the background. They
need the background in order to understand what it is all about.

Top-posting is akin to placing the answer before the question, and to
new readers it looks rather thoughtless.

Top-posting indicates that the poster cannot be bothered to analyze
the points of a text one by one. Not surprisingly, on average the
writers who place their answers logically after the message they
comment come across as more intelligent and knowledgeable than the
majority of top-posters.

Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway

[PSsquare]

Post by pioe[rmv]
Top-posting is akin to placing the answer before the question, and to
new readers it looks rather thoughtless.
Inge Oestmoen, Norway

You are so wrong in your analogy. Bottom posting is like repeating every
previous statement in a meeting before making your comment. Wouldn't that
drive you crazy?

If you are folowing a thread down the list from previous inputs, bottom
posting is simply boring and tedious. It does makes sense when a previous
message had individual statements that require individual comments.
Therefore, I conclude that bottom and top posting each have their place, but
a fixed convention that only bottom posting is correct is simply wrong.

PSsquare

[dvus]

Post by PSsquare

Post by pioe[rmv]
Top-posting is akin to placing the answer before the question, and to
new readers it looks rather thoughtless.
Inge Oestmoen, Norway

You are so wrong in your analogy. Bottom posting is like repeating
every previous statement in a meeting before making your comment.
Wouldn't that drive you crazy?
If you are folowing a thread down the list from previous inputs,
bottom posting is simply boring and tedious. It does makes sense
when a previous message had individual statements that require
individual comments. Therefore, I conclude that bottom and top
posting each have their place, but a fixed convention that only
bottom posting is correct is simply wrong.

AFAIC, top-posting is only acceptable in a technical support forum where
there's only one or two replies to a stated query, and then only when
it's the group norm.

When there's threaded discussion with multiple replies, top-posting is
lazy and rude.

dvus

[hfs2]

top - is faster. Anyway - do what you want.

Post by dvus

Post by PSsquare

Post by pioe[rmv]
Top-posting is akin to placing the answer before the question, and to
new readers it looks rather thoughtless.
Inge Oestmoen, Norway

You are so wrong in your analogy. Bottom posting is like repeating
every previous statement in a meeting before making your comment.
Wouldn't that drive you crazy?
If you are folowing a thread down the list from previous inputs,
bottom posting is simply boring and tedious. It does makes sense
when a previous message had individual statements that require
individual comments. Therefore, I conclude that bottom and top
posting each have their place, but a fixed convention that only
bottom posting is correct is simply wrong.

AFAIC, top-posting is only acceptable in a technical support forum where
there's only one or two replies to a stated query, and then only when
it's the group norm.
When there's threaded discussion with multiple replies, top-posting is
lazy and rude.
dvus

[J***@no.komm]

Post by hfs2
top - is faster. Anyway - do what you want.

It's a faster way to waste bandwidth and hard disk space, especially
when you quote the entire previous post.

[dvus]

Post by hfs2

Post by dvus
AFAIC, top-posting is only acceptable in a technical support forum
where there's only one or two replies to a stated query, and then

only when

Post by hfs2

Post by dvus
it's the group norm.
When there's threaded discussion with multiple replies, top-posting
is lazy and rude.

top - is faster. Anyway - do what you want.

Crapping in your pants is usually faster than finding a toilet, but most
folks don't do that.

Since there's very few "laws" involved in Usenet, people are constrained
mainly by consideration for others. Those that always "do what they
want" lack that consideration.

dvus

[Mark B.]

Post by dvus

Post by hfs2

Post by dvus
AFAIC, top-posting is only acceptable in a technical support forum
where there's only one or two replies to a stated query, and then

only when

Post by hfs2

Post by dvus
it's the group norm.
When there's threaded discussion with multiple replies, top-posting
is lazy and rude.

top - is faster. Anyway - do what you want.

Crapping in your pants is usually faster than finding a toilet, but most
folks don't do that.
Since there's very few "laws" involved in Usenet, people are constrained
mainly by consideration for others. Those that always "do what they
want" lack that consideration.
dvus

If you're comparing the consequences of crapping in your pants to top
posting, that goes beyond being anal, no pun intended.

Mark

[dvus]

Post by Mark B.

Post by dvus

Post by hfs2

Post by dvus
AFAIC, top-posting is only acceptable in a technical support forum
where there's only one or two replies to a stated query, and then
only when it's the group norm.
When there's threaded discussion with multiple replies, top-posting
is lazy and rude.

top - is faster. Anyway - do what you want.

Crapping in your pants is usually faster than finding a toilet, but
most folks don't do that.
Since there's very few "laws" involved in Usenet, people are
constrained mainly by consideration for others. Those that always
"do what they want" lack that consideration.

If you're comparing the consequences of crapping in your pants to top
posting, that goes beyond being anal, no pun intended.

It's about not always taking the easiest way out. Top-posting is quicker
and not trimming is easier but neither is considerate to others.

dvus

[Peter J Ross]

That's what your mother said when she'd finished blowing me.

Post by dvus

Post by Mark B.

Post by dvus

Post by hfs2

Post by dvus
AFAIC, top-posting is only acceptable in a technical support forum
where there's only one or two replies to a stated query, and then
only when it's the group norm.
When there's threaded discussion with multiple replies, top-posting
is lazy and rude.

top - is faster. Anyway - do what you want.

Crapping in your pants is usually faster than finding a toilet, but
most folks don't do that.
Since there's very few "laws" involved in Usenet, people are
constrained mainly by consideration for others. Those that always
"do what they want" lack that consideration.

If you're comparing the consequences of crapping in your pants to top
posting, that goes beyond being anal, no pun intended.

It's about not always taking the easiest way out. Top-posting is quicker
and not trimming is easier but neither is considerate to others.
dvus

;-)

[dvus]

Post by Peter J Ross
That's what your mother said when she'd finished blowing me.

Post by dvus

Post by Mark B.

Post by dvus

Post by hfs2

Post by dvus
AFAIC, top-posting is only acceptable in a technical support
forum where there's only one or two replies to a stated query,
and then only when it's the group norm.
When there's threaded discussion with multiple replies,
top-posting is lazy and rude.

top - is faster. Anyway - do what you want.

Crapping in your pants is usually faster than finding a toilet, but
most folks don't do that.
Since there's very few "laws" involved in Usenet, people are
constrained mainly by consideration for others. Those that always
"do what they want" lack that consideration.

If you're comparing the consequences of crapping in your pants to
top posting, that goes beyond being anal, no pun intended.

It's about not always taking the easiest way out. Top-posting is
quicker and not trimming is easier but neither is considerate to
others.

;-)

I almost missed that disgusting attribution. I assume the "wink"
signifies you're just pulling my leg?

dvus

[Steve Hix]

Post by PSsquare

Post by pioe[rmv]
Top-posting is akin to placing the answer before the question, and to
new readers it looks rather thoughtless.
Inge Oestmoen, Norway

You are so wrong in your analogy. Bottom posting is like repeating every
previous statement in a meeting before making your comment.

Oddly enough, you're not required to carefully save every single
character posted in a thread before you get to your comment. Editing out
extraneous context is actually seen as a good thing.

Post by PSsquare
Wouldn't that drive you crazy?

Editing just takes a little more effort on your part, and saves untold
hours for those readers hanging on your every word.

Imagine the plaudits obtaining to you, not to mention their undying
gratitude, and the reduced drain on critical resource, such as
old-growth ASCII characters clogging bandwidth.

[William Graham]

"Steve Hix" <***@NOSPAMspeakeasy.netINVALID> wrote in message>

Oddly enough, you're not required to carefully save every single

Post by Steve Hix
character posted in a thread before you get to your comment. Editing out
extraneous context is actually seen as a good thing.

Yes, and this is exactly why I bottom post....I cut out everything except
the paragraph that I intend to comment on, leave that in, and put my comment
underneath.... This way, everyone can understand what I am commenting on,
and not have to read everything that went on before......
When I am answering personal mail however, I will frequently top post,
because I expect that the only one who will read it is the individual that I
am having the conversation with, and they will usually remember what we are
talking about and understand my comment without having to scroll down and
read the whole thing....But, if not, scrolling down is always an
option.......

[±]

Post by Steve Hix
Oddly enough, you're not required to carefully save every single

Post by Steve Hix
character posted in a thread before you get to your comment. Editing out
extraneous context is actually seen as a good thing.

Yes, and this is exactly why I bottom post....I cut out everything

Well, *almost*.
--
http://www.geocities.com/snuhsite

From: Lionel <***@alt.net>
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.policy
Subject: Re: [Request for comments] Proposed methods for minimising
abuse from anonymous gateways.
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 02:03:25 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <***@4ax.com>

There is a *reason* why people have been increasingly abandoning Usenet
for web-fora, et al, & this sort of crap is a major part of it. I've
even considered it myself, & I'm a hardcore news-junkie. The levels of
personal, professional, & RL harassment people have been receiving in
rec.photo.* have been truly mind-boggling, & I'm astounded that nobody
has yet launched legal action against Google, the mail2news gateways or
their peers.




-------
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| (O) | \_ ___/
| / | ||
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\ /
\_____,